On the telly this morning they anounced a 40% recovery in North Sea Cod Stocks How come then they can only land tiddlers at Whitby see http://www.whitbyseaanglers.co.uk/forum/in...p?topic=15319.0

This what you looking for Deene'o

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leadi...ea-1973980.html

quote:

This sank to an historic low of 35,700 in 2006 before rising to an estimated 54,250 this year. This revival has not come about by chance.

Conservation methods undertaken by the Scottish fishing fleet, such as using wider meshes and throwing fewer small fish back into the sea, have minimised the absurd wastefulness of the EU's common fishing policy.

You know what Barry I read recently that the figure of 75.000 was the estimated amount of cod in the Newfoundland fishery when it was described as collapsed and the Canadian government then band fishing completely at the cost of 40.000 jobs, Here the EU have been debating this since 2002 see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2580733.stm with the stark warning to which I refer but still the paper chase goes on with no real mean full attempt to stop the decline from those politicians who job it is to take action rather than drag things on simply because the longer they talk the more they get paid.
As for today’s TV report and that of recent catches in Whitby I have to say that we are a couple of years from seeing a proper recovery yet and while we here in the South West are seeing a similar reemergence of small Cod turning up we simply put them back to grow, not in the box for fish soup.

Know what you mean Deene'o Have a look at these figures within this link as a comparison with the new improved stock totals that they have posted for this year.

2010, cod stock has improved to 54.250

yet: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1005565.stm

quote:

In the 1980s, landings of North Sea cod were about 300,000 tonnes annually. This year's catch was set at 80,000 tonnes, but the fish are so scarce that landings amounted to only 50,000 tonnes.

The North Sea does have other ports that aren't called Whitby, Deene'o.

I do take your point about the number of small cod though. We have been plagued by poxy 8lb-10lb'ers on my patch. The things are worse than dogfish, and should there be any further increase it could lead to a mass extinction of RSA 'reps'.

PS. Love the Grand Banks analogy. Never heard that before. Did you get the info from the usual dusty old 'spin doctors'?

Look, if I don't do something soon, the world is going explode into tiny pieces. The best thing everyone can do is to pay me millions of pounds so that I can employ departments full of people who will research it and come up with a cunning plan. I will also be able to buy that new Land Rover I've always wanted, and a horse for my Daughter. Oh, and a nice holiday in the Carribean for my Wife. Well, that will do for starters.

Then, I can sit back and wait for nature to take it's course for a decade or two, (all the time keeping my fund topped up), then claim credit for saving the world when it becomes obvious that I've been bullshitting.

Easy.

Ah Stephen ‘there’s no shortage of fish’ Coppolo, who would have us believe that just about every Charter Boat skipper that has been around for a while is completely wrong about a decline in fish stocks. It’s ok because he gets plenty of fish every time he goes out. Know what Steve I used to think just like you but after forty years of going out at least once a month I have conceded that these skipper might just be right so much so that I upped sticks and moved from Hampshire to Cornwall last year just so that for my few remaining years of agility I might just have a few more fish to catch. The waters around the Isle of Wight do still have fish but nothing like it was ten years ago and Iceland and Canada didn’t go and impose a two hundred mile limit for the hell of it. Oh and Steve you have still to explain where the Herring that were once plentiful in the North Sea have gone. I know that this topic has been discussed in the EU since 2002 and all they have come up with is inadequate quotas and other stupid ideas the CFP is crap. The AT haven’t a clue so your right, there lobbying is a waste of time and money. It’s also shame though as I can’t believe one of the country’s top fishing correspondents is unable to see the sheep because of the wool in his eyes, are you sure you’re not a former politician.

Have they gone, then? I don't know what those silver fish in my bait freezer are, then, but I could have sworn they were North Sea Herring. Perhaps the fisherman who gave them to me bought some imported ones and pretended he caught them? But I can't imagine why he would do that when the North Sea is stuffed with them.

I don't know what the charter skippers down your way are saying, Deano, but I don't hear too many complaints from the ones up here. Have you asked local private boat owners what their fishing is like?

Maybe you are just unlucky and the fishing is poor in your part of the world, but friends of mine who live down there seem to do alright. They catch some very good fish from the beaches. The photos on your website suggest that things aren't as grim as you say.

Deeno myfriend at the moment we are still experiencing the longist algie bloom i have ever know it started in late march and is still with us hopefuly not for much longer 3-7lb fish i am sure are exceptable to most people that is mainly what we are getting at the moment with a few doubles thrown in but while the algie is with us for some reason you dont seem to see the much better fish the south has had a nice run of fish between 6-10lb this winter next winter could be just the opposite lets hope not last year here it was alive with fish around the 10lb mark i wouldnt like to think how many cod between 10-15lb but there was plenty fishing is about conditions get the right conditions the sea comes alive which hopefully will be in the next few days when this green muck goes prior to the green muck were getting fish up and around the 10lb plus mark as for 40% increase in cod stocks that must have been dreamt up by somebody in the NFFO that is probably takieng it back to the 90ss levells if it was true it would be very very nice.

The North Sea stuffed with Herring now there’s a fanciful statement strange then the south west that used to see similar amounts of the silver critters is not stuffed with them too, yes there are some to be had but nothing like the numbers you suggest. My web site does as you say show some cracking fish but since it’s out set in 2003 and particularly these past two years finding reports is not as easy as it was. I will admit that we have had two very windy summers and this year a cold long winter that saw fewer RSA adventures and a restriction of some commercial activity to which will have helped the stock to a small extent. However Steve the skippers like your self are not going to shout to loud about declining stock as bookings would suffer or in your case magazine sales fall having said that if you listen to them as I have over the years when they get to chatting on the radio between each other then you will hear what they truly think. Finally as the informed Mr Luxton points out the official landing figures speak volumes.
So best we agree to disagree but I would put this to you Steve, and that is as we now have a change in government one that lays claim to listen (I know we’ve heard that one before) and one that will act as the publics servant. (Please don’t puke, give em a chance)
If that is the case perhaps we should tell them that because of all of these claims about declining fish stocks. How about we opt out of the CFP like we did with the Euro then declare a two hundred mile limit where ever possible and insist on sustainable methods of commercial fishing. Not only might it give back the UK a decent commercial fishing business but we the RSAs would be sure to benefit with more and bigger fish.
As for you big cod with your green algie 'yuck' I did hear that it's global warming thats caused that. Some one pick Steve up off the floor please. But yep them past glories look good do send me the story www.rodbenders.net

Just checked the latest landings at Grimsby, Fraserbourgh and Peterhead, herring ain't on any of thier lists. What port did they land them.

Gonna have a look at the archives now for comparrison.

Did catch about 20 last thursday down devon, don't suppose they count. Or could we call it a bit of black

The herring season is over Barry.
Herring landings at Peterhead for Jan- March 10. were 19,530 tonnes valued at 4,076.239 mostly for fish meal.
There is very little demand for herring on the home market, if more than a few box's were landed on Lowestoft market they would remain un sold and dumped those you managed to sell would only fetch 50p per Kg, it's not worth buying the nets.

I have no doubt that the herring fleet of old would have caught large amounts of herring if it was still in place today but these days two or three modern pelagic ships can catch what a thousand boats caught fifty years ago, it don't mean the herring aren't there any more.
Herring like other stocks have fluctuated hugely through out history, they do better in warm periods and rapidly crash during colder times as happened during the sixties and no doubt if we get more winters like the last one will start to decline again.


Deeno

You say stocks are not what they used to be , no doubt that is the case for some stocks in some areas perhaps you could be more pacific and we could discuss the merits of your claims species by species .

No one fishes for them any more, Barry, so I'm not surprised that they don't feature much in the landing records of those ports.

Not read this thread, but just received the following link by email, if it helps:

http://www.fishupdate.com/news/fullstory.p...alth_-_WWF.html

50% increase but an increase from what a 25th of what it was 25 years ago laughable.

paul.

I see that 'Harry Potter' (Callum Roberts) has crawled out of the woodwork to play down the positive press.


Hi Big Cod

Would you say that the Cod fishing is rubbish up there?

I know that if our smoothounds, thornbacks, cod, sole were running at only 8%, I wouldn't bother.


Hence the reason I tend not to target bass locally anymore. Generally, I reckon the bass fishing is total pants, and hanging it out for a fluke ain't my thing.......so I fish for all the other stuff.



I'm always keeping an eye out for that special bass mark though, hoping that one day I might find some worth catching.

No what i am saying sharkbyte is what is the true picture is we still have a good cod fisherie here but we had a fantastic one before i have to agree with callum roberts even though on other issues i dont but he is 100% correct 52% increase just where do they get there figures from its crap ask most of the shore anglers who fished last winter down the east coast if there is a 52% increase in cod they will look at you if you have just arrived from mars there is a lot of juvenile cod this year due to the harsh winter of 2008-2009 but as mr callum says dont count your chickens yet i would say you will get a more true picture by the end of the 2010.

paul.

You always have to be careful when talking about increases. There are a lot of small undersize fish on the ground this year. We are picking up a lot of undersize cod from the kayak. Back in 1997 you had the same scenario but on a much bigger scale. It only took the east coast trawling fleet 2 years to wipe that good year class off the floor of the north sea. Even with less boats today, the technology means any successfull year class could be gone in the same amount of time.

Hello Glenn

With that technology they don't seem to have made much impression on the last couple of good year classes.

Boats with competent skippers can always find fish - until the last ones disappear. Being able to find enough fish to make a living is NOT the same as having a healthy stock level, like they had for hundreds of years.
I've said before that the only true test of cod stock recovery is when shore anglers start catching like the "good old days", which I am not prepared to accept were a freak situation!
The North and Irish seas should be amongst the most fertile waters in the world, shallow, temperate and fed with nutrients by rivers flowing off land on all sides and by the Gulf Stream.

Competent anglers can always find fish.

Where does it say they had a constant healthy stock level for hundreds of years?

If the cod fishing locally was as healthy as you say why sail to Iceland or the grand banks ?

I would be interested in any reports of good cod fishing from the southern north sea and English channel during the 2O and 30's, I can't find any, I suspect the cod stocks are higher now than they were then .

The north sea and Irish sea are amongst the most fertile waters in the world but conditions are not always suitable for cod, but there is always an abundance of something.

aaaaahhh, used to get fab cod in the seventies eighties and early nineties up and down the varne. Wern't around in the 20's-30's I have to say that there is a re-emergence of codling and small cod for the last three years or so, long may it continue. It will be good if enough of them can stay around.

I remember the cod fishing going down the pan from the mid 80's to early 90's off the Kent coast, Barry. so much so that we stopped the monthly bookings we had with the Kent skippers we used to go out with.

Maybe all the cod were all concentrated on the Varne?

I don't know anyone who was beach fishing through the 20's and 30's, or even anyone who went boat fishing during those years, but if the cod fishing had been good, I'm sure someone would be banging on about it. I've never heard any mention of the good old 20's and 30's, though.

Hiyer Steve,

In the winter there is still a chance of a biggy on the ground, however tide and wind is the biggest problem, i haven't stopped me monthly for that reason in particular, saying that it was four years ago i last had a good one, yet you can still get out half a mile or so and have codling with the odd cod.

The varne in the summer there is one particular drift, rough ground with two or three wrecks including an area with loads of crab feed, when the codling are around you could pull them up three at a time, seen five with some guys using shrimp hokkies. Nothing big but it's good fun for a while. I would say that there is definatly a few year classes to be caught. Seen them a heck of a lot better. Havn't been there yet this year, last months was cancelled, too windy Over the years the charter boats have got a bit thin on the ground. Folkestone does not have a full time skipper, last year there was only one weekend skipper as the other two moved to dover to concentrate on channel swimming. It's not all bad news, there has been plenty of resonable bass on the wrecks, using live eel. Haven't caught one there using live mackerel yet, must give that a go this year. Blonde ray on another part of the banks. No one fishies for conger, yet i know that there are decent one's on the wrecks. Again tide and wind play a part. I know if someone gets a good one they will have a decent fight as the water is quite shallow. Few pollock, if someone gets a double at the top end, that is classed as quite good.

Seems to be a few showing up now. This vid was taken by one of our forum members.

http://s908.photobucket.com/albums/ac288/j...nt=100_2250.flv

See a programme on the telly last night, the ships that made britain. 60' scottish sail boats used to go all over the north sea, typical year for them was 2.5 mill barrells of herring mostly exported.

The icelandic herring season has just kicked off, most of their fish are for human consumption as they make a big thing of using upto date automatic cleaning machines. Have they knicked all the fish and the trade. I would imagine that they are for export.


Found this:

From the 1920s, there was a big decline in the herring fishing industry. The problem of overfishing was recognised in the 1950s. Catches fell dramatically in the 1960s. Smaller catches encouraged the fishermen to look for new ways to catch herring. This led to the introduction of new types of netting. There were also advances in technology. These only worsened the problem.

The North Sea catch declined from 500 000 tonnes in 1972 to less than 170 000 tonnes in 1976. In 1976 the North East stock of herring had fallen from 1.2 million tonnes to 300 000 tonnes, of which only about 50% were capable of breeding. In December 1977, the British herring catch was at its lowest for a century. A ban on herring fishing was introduced on the East Coast in 1977. The ban was only supposed to last for a short time, but it actually lasted for four years. Selective fishing was reintroduced in 1981.

Since the 1970s there have been many different schemes and agreements to try to control the fisheries. There have been many disagreements about how to divide quotas fairly. There have also been problems of countries not sticking to quotas and of illegal fishing. In all this, politics has played a major part.

Don't know whether they nicked it, but they have the trade. Hardly anyone in this country eats herrings any more. Too many fiddly bones to deal with and they make the house smell.

Mmmmm’ Kippers……… I remember the smell well but your right loads of bones. Here in the sunny south west I can report that small Cod are about on the rough ground in numbers Given how quick they grow local trawler owners are already rubbing there hands at the booty to be had in the not to distant. Barry you wanted me to post a picture of the Ling I caught just two and a bit miles off. No problem mate wouldn’t have time to say ‘are we there yet’ in this part of the world, more like ‘There already you must be joking’

Ohhh dear have i got to show youse how to bone one in about ten seconds. Best eating grub in the world.

Yes please, Barry.